Why Older Women Are Choosing Not to Remarry | Ask My Man Manny Podcast

Unlock the mysteries of harmonizing love and money as I, Maynid Henson, team up with the brilliant Dr. Abbey Durkin to dissect the evolving phenomena of financial independence in love after 45. In an era where women wield greater economic power, the quest for companionship overrides the hunt for financial support. Our dialogue, inspired by a provocative Washington Post article, navigates the often-uncharted waters of later-life relationships, where women are deftly balancing heartstrings and purse strings. We peer into the strategies these savvy women employ to protect their nest eggs while embracing new romantic ventures, ensuring their financial security doesn't play second fiddle to their emotional fulfillment.

Discover how the tides of remarriage stir up more than just sentimental waves as we examine the financial implications of finding new love later in life. Dr. Abbey and I shine a light on how such unions can jostle the anchors of social security benefits and alimony, urging the need for candid financial conversations before saying "I do" again. These discussions are not just about protecting assets but also about securing peace of mind for oneself and one's progeny. We delve into the complexities of estate planning and the legal scaffolding that upholds children's inheritances, balancing the non-material richness of partnership with the stark realities of financial foresight.

Closing the loop on our financial odyssey, we address the delicate dance of managing marital finances. Together with Dr. Abbey, I highlight the unsung hero of marital bliss—communication—while unraveling the twine of tax planning and investment strategies that can either bind or divide. We advocate for a personalized approach, recognizing that every couple's financial fingerprint is unique. By intertwining our expertise with real-world scenarios, we lay out a roadmap for couples to navigate their shared financial future, underlining the power of professional guidance to ensure love and money can indeed share a lifetime commitment.

Transcript

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 0:06

But the point is I think it's not the only part but in order to understand the financial part, you have to have these unvarnished, naked truths, you know, clear-eyed discussions about what are your financial needs, what are the debts that you're bringing into this relationship, how much will this relationship impact you financially? What is the value add? What is the value loss?

Disclosure: 0:32

The content presented and discussed is purely intended to be general and educational in nature and should not be construed as specifically tailored investment, financial planning, tax, legal, psychological diagnosis or other professional advice.

Manny Henson, CFP: 0:46

Hello everybody. This is Maynid Henson from Gemble Wealth Management, with Dr Abbey Durkin on the line with us. We have another great podcast episode with you all. We're going to talk about a subject that is near and dear to some of the people I talk to, when I'm sure that Abbey has some people that she talks to that has some of these questions or concerns about this. But love, love later in life, specifically for women, the implications of that, abbey, when you think about aging, I definitely understand there's obviously the biological assumption that women will outlive men and they have to plan around that and there's certain decisions that women will make that men typically don't necessarily have to make all the time. That's not always the case, but what are some of the challenges of aging and finding love, I guess, in your view?

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 1:54

Yeah, I was really inspired by this article I read recently by Roxanne Roberts, and she's a writer at the Washington Post. Last week she published this article says for older women with money, it's yes to love, but I don't to marriage. This really captivated me because in her article she spits some facts, and some of them are as follows Only two million households in the USA have a net worth of a million or more, and a third of them are headed by women. That's point one. Second point is that this is the first generation of women to accumulate a significant amount of wealth. In the coming decade, women are going to hold greater economic power than in all previous generations.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 2:42

Part of the reason why older women is predominantly in this title is because this wealth has taken decades to accumulate, unless, of course, you're born into it. For women who now have been economically I don't want to say advantaged we've been economically empowered, I guess in ways, or we've had some significant obstacles removed over the past couple of decades in order for us to acquire this wealth, and it's had a really interesting impact on relationships. This is more than just the pre-nup agreement that people talk about. This is what happens after you have accumulated wealth through 401K, through your savings, through your investments, and you find yourself single, or you've been single and now you're contemplating getting into a relationship. It's a totally different stage in life because at this stage in life, when you have financial security, as one of the people in this article that she interviewed put it this is actually a medical resident who was interviewed she and her colleague these two residents were marveling at the idea of being able to get married for love versus for financial stability.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 3:56

When women are finding themselves in a position of financial stability, it can have really positive psychological impacts on the partners that they choose. Because when you take away some of the financial urge to find a person for that stability aspect, when you no longer have that pressing need, you can be more clear-eyed about who you're choosing and why you're choosing it. The relationship between finances and who you choose as a partner is really taking quite an interesting shape as you look at this population of women, I'd say 45 and plus, which I'm in. I'm not trying to put shade on the older women category. I am right in there too. I just thought that this was fascinating because one of the other great quotes was you want to build your life with someone in order to live your life with someone.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 4:49

Each one of the people that was interviewed, they have somewhat differing financial strategies about how to approach money with their partner. What I love is that everybody had a strategy. It wasn't the same way that we go about getting into relationships when we're young, which is, we want to find that person, settle down and get stability. Once you have that monocle of stability, you make really different choices and it was bringing up a lot in my mind about how, when we are in that search in the very beginning of life, that there are a ton of incentives to getting married that aren't about the relationship itself.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 5:31

There's sociocultural, religious, moral implications to this concept of you have a certain path in life and you have to go through this path in certain order, right. And so sometimes people will choose to opt into a relationship even if it doesn't make any financial sense to them at all right. And other people will choose to opt into a relationship simply because it makes financial sense, and that's a big elephant in the room, and sometimes that's a taboo topic. But we can't ignore the aspects of the, I guess, the value add that another person brings in terms of financial stability. But it really was fascinating to me thinking about the different types of choices that we make as women as we're approaching relationships, but through that financial lens and you mentioned some of the people that this might be near and dear to in your client base and I was wondering if you could maybe talk about what you see as some of the pros and cons of marriage financially speaking.

Manny Henson, CFP: 6:36

Oh, wow, that is a really big question there and as we were talking, I was thinking about I have clients who just fortunate enough to be in situations where they feel comfortable talking to me and be honest, and I think for most of the people who are interested in marriage, it's about the companionship, right, it's about having somebody in the journey and going and cheering jokes, inside jokes and funny moments and time with you know, watching a movie and maybe binge watching a show and saying you didn't watch it, you know, it's just like it's just about a whole bunch of other things that are not about the money.

Manny Henson, CFP: 7:21

And when you're getting older, I think women get a little more, a lot more confident in themselves and they understand what they wanted, what they don't want. I think that's also the same for both sexes. Going back, like in history, you get a breakdown to understand the whole purpose of marriage as an institution and a big reason why people got married. You know you're talking to hundreds of years ago. It's really about resources, right. Who gets what when someone passes away? Right, if we didn't have marriage, there would be, perhaps, you know, children in and outside of the main relationship that might have claims on property, assets, countries. You know the resources they're built between two individuals, primary individuals and franticide, and kingdoms and different empires were within different empires wasn't unheard of, you know. You look at the Greeks, you look at the Ottomans, you look at any of the major empires over the last hundreds of years and you can see that. You know a lot of infighting and death, but you know, keeping it really, really simple, the stakes are a lot less intimidating as an average person, the average couple, this century it's really about also, you know, who takes care of your children. Who has the right to different things benefits is a big part and one of the main things that most people will talk to me about. If you're looking at second marriage and you know that sort of thing is really alimony social security. So let's say you know you're no longer married with someone you were married with, they're giving you some support between that period of time that divorced you for a few more years than ever and Israeli ever has any like lifetimes of war, but anymore. But you know that having another marriage or relationship would impact that If you have more than 10 years in a marriage from your prior spouse, your benefits, your calculation or PI based that that's based on your earnings history is going to be based on the greater of your half of your ex spouses earnings history or your own or your next spouses. Now, most people don't know about that. The second part they only assume that it's based on whatever, whichever was your last spouse or your current spouse. But you can change that, especially if you're raising children. Your earnings history was spotting.

Manny Henson, CFP: 10:13

And social security you look back 25 years. If you're older woman, you might say, well, if I get married, how does this affect my social security? Social security represents a replacement of 30 to 40% for most households, and it may be even higher back again for women who were raising family and doing a number of other things. So those are two main ones. It's really social security and alimony. There's some others, but yeah, I mean what jumps out in your mind from a psychological standpoint. What do you see as the biggest benefits? I've seen some statistics that say that women who were married, who live less, live less time and women who are not married live longer. But I wonder why you think why that might be the case too.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 11:03

Yeah, well, I mean certainly with women out living men. Women are the ones now that are having to have those inheritance conversations and they're in those wealth management conversations as a result of their longevity. In many cases, and when you think about the reasons for people coupling up when they're younger, there are legitimate practical financial reasons to do so. We've got education, shared costs, we have health insurance, which is a huge one. You also can have the shared housing costs, which there's a big housing crisis right now, and so it makes a lot of sense just from a practical, pragmatic standpoint to pull your resources together. But it's a different kind of decision making process when both people are coming from a place of financial stability and just like we've seen stories about couples that, for example, they don't share the same bedroom maybe because one partner has sleep apnea and snores really, really loud, we're seeing an increasing trend of people living quite happily with totally separate finances, and it isn't just a preventative measure guarding against potential demise of the relationship, but it's, in a way, simplifying the relationship and actually making it healthier and more about the dynamic between two people being less complicated. When you remove the financial dependence between people, you can see them in a different light, and I think that might be the space that more older women are able to step into.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 12:48

And we're talking about topics that are often taboo right, love and money.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 12:52

It doesn't get much more taboo than that.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 12:54

But we have to have these conversations, and I'm glad they're happening in a public space, like a podcast, because if we do have young people listening, which I hope we do, having this kind of financial perspective is important, where, for most people, they are a big part of the equation when you're choosing a partner. But the point is, I think it's not the only part. But in order to understand the financial part, you have to have these unvarnished, naked truth, clear-eyed discussions about what are your financial needs, what are the debts that you're bringing into this relationship, how much will this relationship impact you financially, what is the value add, what is the value loss? And we talk about opportunity costs. If we forego a job offer, for example, in another state, that's higher, paying in favor of a relationship, that's an opportunity cost, and it's a financial discussion as much as it is an emotional discussion, and so I think it's a good way of blending the psychology and financial worlds together. You don't get a better blend, really than when you're talking about partnership Right.

Manny Henson, CFP: 14:09

Oh man, it's one of the most important things that this is. You're making your life, you're spending so much time with this person. They have legal rights, they're trying to build something, trying to raise family, and talking about that too is a lot of people who have children from another marriage and they're confused about what would happen. And there's some. Maybe your adult children don't necessarily like or are interested in growing another relationship with another step-parent. There's always that factor. What most people aren't aware of, is there some?

Manny Henson, CFP: 14:45

Yeah, obviously there's some risk of disinheritance if you married someone, a most remarried, but there are legal devices that can be created to protect them and continue to make sure that the reason why someone is staying with you is for happiness, companionship and not the money itself.

Manny Henson, CFP: 15:06

Right, there's this thing called a marital trust, where your second spouse could have the right to income during their lives, but the corpus, or the remaining amount of money that's left after the second spouse passes away, goes back to the children, whether that be the children of the marriage or the adult children from a prior marriage.

Manny Henson, CFP: 15:35

And so you know, talking to a state planner, talking to an attorney and telling them and honestly, what your concerns are, are really important and I'm also thinking about that for people who are in existing relationships where they're not married. Right, what happens if you pass away and you have children with a person you're not married to? Neil bell, you know, working with an estate planner telling them like this is what I want to happen in the case where I pass away. I'm in this new relationship. I don't want it to be about money and also want my kids to not feel like this person is chasing after me. You know Casanova type of situation. There is a solution if people are willing and open to talk about it with someone, and confidence, yeah, is a hallmark in a keystone of anything that I do, like if I, as a certified financial planner, if someone says something to me in confidence, that doesn't go anywhere else.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 16:40

Yeah, and I'm wondering it's probably not going to be an easy answer, but what do you think about splitting finances?

Manny Henson, CFP: 16:52

No, I think, as an older couple, that's probably going to be a. If you have children from a prior relationship, it might be a consideration. Yeah, do you think that trust marital trust could be a good device to make sure that, if you pass away, that your children from a prior relationship are taken care of. There's other considerations. People have businesses, Like what happens to your business if you pass away and you want, does your business partner want to be a business partner with your spouse if you pass away? And most people would say what, and so that's where splitting things off makes sense. I do think that during your marriage your second marriage you're going to need to, in most states, require some level of support of your spouse. You don't want to have the law tell you that you have to support your spouse, but you know there's some part that would be commingled to pay your bills or the household expenses. If you want to go beyond that, then you can separate finances.

Manny Henson, CFP: 18:06

But yeah yeah, I think keeping things separate can cause more harm than good If you're not looking at tax planning completely and collectively. I can't believe how many people I've talked to or like or like, because I'll do taxes as well. I'm following marriage, following separate and unless, okay, great, okay. Is there a particular reason why you want to do that? Just saw I understand. Oh no, they want to just do their taxes some other time and I want to do mine now. Wow, this is the person you're married to Like. You don't trust this person and know how much you make work. I mean, if that's a legitimate, I mean if that's something you get, it is there the real reason and let's talk about that. But usually you lose more by not collaborating on the tax standpoint.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 19:00

Raises a really good point too about maybe people not understanding the financial implications within the context of the relationship.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 19:10

If they're making it for maybe not just an emotional reason but for a pure convenience reason, then in couples usually you've got one person who's on time and one person who's kind of like late, you know, and when you've got one person that's like ready to go and as soon as they have their tax documents they're already on the platforms and they're filing, and then you've got the one person that is scrambling on April 14th right.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 19:36

So you can see it within couples that, okay, from an organizational time management perspective, of course it would make sense to file separately, but there are these very real financial implications to doing that. And it kind of comes back to the communication aspect, where you got to communicate with your partner about what you want to do, why you want to do it. But then I'm so glad that you know in your example that people did have that opportunity to have that conversation with you and you actually asked what's the reason? Because if it just is a matter of convenience or timeliness or I just want to be over and done with it, well let's pump the brakes because there's some real monetary implications.

Manny Henson, CFP: 20:22

So you know you're not going to be able to do that right. Oh yeah, it means dramatic. You know you look at the tax code and you might have phase outs. There are a gallon, you know, if you file separately versus filing and marry filing jointly, you know, and so making sure that you marry somebody that you feel like you can be comfortable with talking about them, and how do you win when I talk about that, or how? You could be comfortable. I mean, there's got to be other reasons as well.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 20:54

I'm wondering also from a financial perspective, what would make sense for couples to keep separate as far as finances go, if anything.

Manny Henson, CFP: 21:06

If you have a business perhaps that you're managing and you're not necessarily need to redo an operating agreement and add them as a co-owner, I think that might be something that has some reasoning behind it. I mean, your employees have helped you build your business. It could be very politically untenable to have someone just step in and manage your business that you've created with another person, unless there's some clear understanding with their value, that they're ringing and there's some problems with that. Then there's your normal fund money, right. So, like I said, I think having a buck of the money that you use to manage your household expenses or manage your expenses is great, and having your own money. Don't lose yourself completely. You're having some money on your side that you can buy. You can give for each other and you can buy stuff for yourself. Share of your own self, that's important.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 22:11

Yeah, yeah, and I'm really glad that that's being talked about now, because some people go into marriage with a very all-or-nothing mindset and what we're finding out is that might not be the best way for everybody right now, not once one size fits all in relationships, and same is true for those financial dynamics between people who are in relationship. So for one person, it might be that they put everything, everything in the same shared pile.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 22:42

For another couple, it might be that they each have their own respective, as you say, like fund money and their self-care money, whatever they need to get through on the day to day, kind of a personal allowance, and then maybe there's a share in savings account.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 22:58

Maybe you guys would have individual savings account. Maybe it would make sense to separate it in terms of financial portfolio performance. If maybe one partner was more risk averse and another partner was more risk tolerant, you might see different financial strategies within the same married couple, right? Have you ever come across that? Maybe where, like, one partner is or forward-leaning and risk and investment and the other one wants to hold back?

Manny Henson, CFP: 23:26

Yeah, you know that's a big key part. I mean, keith, keith and I'm dealing with with with most couples is for those people who are, you know, at 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and up, there is a risk tolerance that each individual has from their money and there's got to be a blending of those two. So what I typically do is I help clients understand where both of them they are individually and then come to a consensus. That's in between. Dollars are flungible. We're going to, we're going to assume that if you're managing money, you're managing investments that you both want to have, investments that provide you income and resources in your later years that you cannot outlive.

Manny Henson, CFP: 24:12

No one has a crystal ball to see who that is. You understand what your cash flow needs and I can simulate and show right Just what you want to do. This is your third house, is your vacation home, your 60, your retire? Here's this time frame where your cash flow needs are going to change because you're doing you're relieving your main job and you're going to part-time job and you're doing all the things you wanted to do in your 30s and 40s because you now you have the money in your 60s, 70s and 80s. But let's look at what your portfolios look like, together with a blended approach of both your risk tolerance, and I have resources and solutions to do that.

Manny Henson, CFP: 24:54

I also have a comprehensive you've seen a little bit about it too, abbey a comprehensive like a psychological assessment to see how money is served in their versions of themselves in the past. How does that influence their decisions in the past? And so there's this observation especially if they're engaged, I love to go through that first before they make a decision, to kind of help them figure out where am I coming from when it comes to my relationship with money the positives, the good, the bads and the ugliest, and vice versa. Where do we need to make a compromise and where do we need to make some adjustments in ourselves? Like you said, like there's people who are completely on top of things, like they're really you know, really interested in planning in the future, because planning regardless of how much money you have, by the way, planning helps you get to where you want to be, all the else being equal versus somebody who's just like like lazy affair and it's just like not really interested. It's like not really really interesting to have a conversation.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 26:01

Yeah, I'm really glad that there's you know resource like you that can demystify these financial concepts and being able to talk, you know, like with somebody like me, for example, about where are you at psychologically, what's your relationship with money historically been like, what are the taboos that you know, what are the things you don't want to talk about, and let's see if we can build up a safe place for you to express some of those concerns.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 26:31

You know, is it maybe culturally taboo to discuss private earnings, like in Japan, for example? There's a little bit of a taboo in discussing monies earned or earnings earned through trading. So, especially with the Mrs Wantanabe, which I want to talk about in our next episode, because that's another women in powerhouse situations on the financial spectrum, but being able to have those conversations in confidence about your perspectives on money, what you want, what you don't want, what it says about you, and that differs by the person what are some of your internal obstacles when it comes to saving and spending? How do you think that'll impact your spouse? What are some best case scenarios? What are some worst case scenarios? What are you going to do to safeguard yourself psychologically and financially and also prepare for success, because it's not a gloom and doom conversation.

Manny Henson, CFP: 27:22

So oh yeah.

Dr. Abbey-Robin Durkin: 27:23

Yeah, awesome.

Manny Henson, CFP: 27:26

I hope that everybody was listening. I just realized is that, look, as long as you're open and honest, you have a planner you can talk to. There is a solution for every potential challenge you might have with creating a new financial life and new life with numbers. Just a matter of having those conversations with an estate planner or financial planner, someone that understands a little bit about your situation, that you're willing to talk to in an estate planning, and they can come with a customized solution. That is it for us today. I wish you all great week and hopefully we hear from you or see you in our next, or listen to you. Let you listen to us in our next podcast, alright, Thank you.

Manny Henson, CFP: 28:10

Take care.

Disclosure: 28:16

The content presented and discussed is purely intended to be general and educational in nature and should not be construed as specifically tailored investment, financial planning, tax, legal, psychological diagnosis or other professional advice. Any data cited is valid as of the date of presentation, but please know that such data are frequently subject to change. Any investment performance referenced is purely past performance, which is no guarantee of any future performance. Nothing contained in this course should be construed as an offer to sell, a solicitation of an offer to buy or a recommendation of any security or other financial product or investment strategy. All investment tax and financial planning strategies involve risk that you should be prepared to bear. Investment, financial planning, tax, legal and other professional advice is specific to each individual and entity.